This has been on my mind for quite some time now and I do not believe it will solve anything, but hey, one never knows.

I propose that we all play with any and every available option in the game just for one week to see how that goes. I feel we owe it to ourselves, both the players who try to play fair and to those who believe all tactics that are in the game to be fair play. During this time period there will be absolutely nothing to argue about as everything will be consider fair play by all. And I mean everything. Yes, even tank spawn killing.

I have been playing way too many games where players are taking advantage of all available so called tactics on a regular basis and from I can tell more and more players are starting to do the same. From what I am noticing it seems as if every next group of noob players are seeing this gameplay and are electing it into their style of play. Before you know it I feel that the majority of the community will adapt to this gameplay.

As of right now I do not see this style of play to be right. I am not saying that I am right or wrong as many players have their opinions. During this one week at least we will see what the game is like when everyone is playing with equality. No one will have an advantage on their choice of play.

From day one here I have been trying to play as fair as I can. I have to admit though that I do get curious to try out some of these so called tactics. This will be the time for us all to do so. Maybe the game will be a big mess during this time. Maybe we all will see that these choices are the way to play the game. Or maybe nothing at all with come from this.

I say who cares about anything for this one week. Let's just let it all out. It may do us all some good. At least we will all be in accord for once. I know we will never get everyone to agree to play without all these tactics so let's just try it out. It's only one week. We dealt with lag issues for about six weeks. I am sure we can deal with this.

Let's not turn this topic into a huge debate
Simply state if you like the idea or not. Explain yourselves if you wish but let's not get into any arguements over it.

I gotta admit I really wouldn't mind letting loose for this one week even though I truly believe some tactics are 100% not fair play. Just to avoid how we argue about what is fair and not right now, to try to say one tactic should not be allowed (such as tank spawn killing) when we all know there will be someone that will still use it, will only open the door for more arguements. If we say yes to all there is nothing to argue about.

Wednesday, September 23 at 12:01 AM to Wednesday, September 30 at 12:01 AM

These dates and times are based on New York time (EST - Eastern Standard Time zone) in order for us all to be in unison

Should we decide to go ahead with this I ask that everone spreads the word around so all players are aware of this. Use world chat, email, pm, facebook, in gameplay, any and everything to let everyone know about what may take place.

This is not definite yet
Only until I hear about your opinions on this will any action take place if it even will. I am waiting to hear from you all.

Once again PLEASE try to simply state wheather you are for or against this idea. I gave us a few days to talk about this idea and I feel that a one week playing time will give us all the chance to experience this type of play as some do not play as often as others.

Please translate all spanish responses to english as well as leaving the original spanish post

I do not speak spanish as many do not speak english so this will be of help to us all.
Thank You

Ok I'll bite...

I'm not interested. Im not going to use glitches to win games unless there's a douchebag doing it first. I'm never going to tank spawnkill anyone.

I'll just continue to play the way I do regardless of what gets decided. And I'm not going to argue with anyone else who may post here.

[*M]Comet wrote: Ok I'll bite...

I'm not interested. Im not going to use glitches to win games unless there's a douchebag doing it first. I'm never going to tank spawnkill anyone.

I'll just continue to play the way I do regardless of what gets decided. And I'm not going to argue with anyone else who may post here.

To Everyone: please respond in the same way that Comet did. He made his point short and very clear

Comet

I have to agree with you here. Even I feel the same exact way you do. I just feel that it may not be a bad idea to try it out for 1 week. No need for you to respond again as the way you posted was perfect. Should you have a different view in the days to come go ahead and let us know.

You made yourself very clear here. I have to say that you often have wise words to share and you opinion is valued.

Thanks for the response

I gues for 1 week if everybody does it it could be fun to test, but scince everybody wont be trying it.... besids, many of us have our pack honour.

You might as well open the Gates to Hell, lol. Really nothing will change, the honorable players will still play the same.

Yeah!

But why should we?

Common decency like just letting people take off if you're not incoming with a bomb (since it's a game and not real all out war), would be a nice judge on what is "on" or "off".

Please help me out here. Why Is it we should switch decency off?

Sojan and Hulk

I 100% get what you both said here and it's great to see that you stick to your values.

It would be great if everyone lived to your standards of play, but unfortunatley they do not. A few more responses favoring the fair style of play and this idea will come to an end.

It was just a thought, wise or not, and it's nice to hear your opinions.

Rudolf Rednose wrote: Yeah!

But why should we?

Common decency like just letting people take off if you're not incoming with a bomb (since it's a game and not real all out war), would be a nice judge on what is "on" or "off".

Common decency and common sense is how I look at it. Wish everyone would get that but they don't or just don't care.

Tank spawnkilling is a bannedable offense...you cant do something aqainst what zuperman says not to do.unless it is confirmed by zuperman himself..not an arguing comment just a comment ty ..MEAN FOKKER

D93 Big Gunzzz wrote:

[*M]Comet wrote: Ok I'll bite...

I'm not interested. Im not going to use glitches to win games unless there's a douchebag doing it first. I'm never going to tank spawnkill anyone.

I'll just continue to play the way I do regardless of what gets decided. And I'm not going to argue with anyone else who may post here.

To Everyone: please respond in the same way that Comet did. He made his point short and very clear

Comet

I have to agree with you here. Even I feel the same exact way you do. I just feel that it may not be a bad idea to try it out for 1 week. No need for you to respond again as the way you posted was perfect. Should you have a different view in the days to come go ahead and let us know.

You made yourself very clear here. I have to say that you often have wise words to share and you opinion is valued.

Thanks for the response

Sorry for editting around all the time.


Those that stoop down to the level of their enemies to win, lose all they try to preserve.

[*M]VonHuLK wrote: You might as well open the Gates to Hell, lol. Really nothing will change, the honorable players will still play the same.

Your "Gates to Hell" comment. I was thinking about the same thing. My thoughts were that "all hell will break loose". If I would be right in thinking that, maybe that is what this game needs.

I get the feeling that the players who enjoy playing as they please without showing any respect to others enjoy doing it because right now it's an advantage to them. I can't see them enjoying it as much if all were to do the same. I know that when I return the "favor" against a player who uses such tactics they tend not to like it at all.

My thought, maybe I am wrong here, was that if everyone sees how good or bad this choice to play with all is fair that maybe we will all see eye to eye. LMAO...WISHFUL THINKING

MEAN FOKKER wrote: Tank spawnkilling is a bannedable offense...you cant do something aqainst what zuperman says not to do.unless it is confirmed by zuperman himself..not an arguing comment just a comment ty ..MEAN FOKKER

D93 Big Gunzzz wrote:

[*M]Comet wrote: Ok I'll bite...

I'm not interested. Im not going to use glitches to win games unless there's a douchebag doing it first. I'm never going to tank spawnkill anyone.

I'll just continue to play the way I do regardless of what gets decided. And I'm not going to argue with anyone else who may post here.

To Everyone: please respond in the same way that Comet did. He made his point short and very clear

Comet

I have to agree with you here. Even I feel the same exact way you do. I just feel that it may not be a bad idea to try it out for 1 week. No need for you to respond again as the way you posted was perfect. Should you have a different view in the days to come go ahead and let us know.

You made yourself very clear here. I have to say that you often have wise words to share and you opinion is valued.

Thanks for the response

Is it really bannable? Do you know of any players that have been banned for it? I don't because on multiple occasions I have reported players in a game for doing so and I still see them around doing the same thing.

I know you are just pointing this out and I appreciate it. Would be nice to see those bans kick in against these players.

Well.. things looked kind of mixed ? It's lke there's a mixture of, "Against the rules & Controversial style of game play together ? If I know what the rules are, why don't anybody else knows ? That's obviously bizarre to me ? Yea.. by being a Member of this DF community & participating in on forum discussions plus navigating through topics which leads to reading.. I actually know most of if not all the rules to ~Dogfight~. People bicker, but u know what ? It's time to keep my mouth closed & speak to whom it counts ? I don't disagree with none of the rules & I will never resort to playing by none. I think we should keep the rules implemented but use this time (For 1 week) to play by all styles rather ? But we do need & will never resort to Tank spawn killing unless I say u actually were able to drive u'r tank all the way from permitted landing to enemy base & not by glitch landing ? But still it would lead to controversy so I say keep rules as is on that particular issue & others which is not much.. not many rules to this game @ all when properly thought about ? Think about it ? I am confident enough about my game play & don't need a trial on anything but to show u what I believe in.. in server ?

But never the less.. so be it. I will try it Gunzzz to support u'r efforts on a never ending resolution. Just for a week ?

111th| Heroicz wrote: Well.. things looked kind of mixed ? It's lke there's a mixture of, "Against the rules & Controversial style of game play together ? If I know what the rules are, why don't anybody else knows ? That's obviously bizarre to me ? Yea.. by being a Member of this DF community & participating in on forum discussions plus navigating through topics which leads to reading.. I actually know most of if not all the rules to ~Dogfight~. People bicker, but u know what ? It's time to keep my mouth closed & speak to whom it counts ? I don't disagree with none of the rules & I will never resort to playing by none. I think we should keep the rules implemented but use this time (For 1 week) to play by all styles rather ? But we do need & will never resort to Tank spawn killing unless I say u actually were able to drive u'r tank all the way from permitted landing to enemy base & not by glitch landing ? But still it would lead to controversy so I say keep rules as is on that particular issue & others which is not much.. not many rules to this game @ all when properly thought about ? Think about it ? I am confident enough about my game play & don't need a trial on anything but to show u what I believe in.. in server ?

But never the less.. so be it. I will try it Gunzzz to support u'r efforts on a never ending resolution. Just for a week ?

Hero

The key word here as you stated is "trial". It would be only 1 week. I agree with what you said about the rules in DF. Some are written and others not. We all pretty much know what they are but a certain few will fight to the bitter end stating that if they are not in writing that it is fair. This is me going too far in this discussion on trying to debate what is and what is not fair. I don't want this thread going into that "never ending" debate. That is why should this 1 week trial take place the only way it will work is to make everything fair.

DO NOT GO AHEAD AND PLAY THIS WAY ON THE STATED DATES YET.

It is not decided on as of yet and may or may not happen. I don't want you or anyone to think that simply because I posted this idea that it's a definite. We will wait to see how players vote on this to decide if this trial will take place.

Thanks man. Always nice to hear from you!

I hope everyone understands the point to this 1 week trial. It is not to get more kills, bomb more hangers, or to come away with a win. It is to see if it is better to play with or without any and all available tactics. Maybe then we will have some ground to stand on about these so called tactics if we all choose to play this way. If we don't we will never know and this debate may really be a never ending debate.

I hope by participating in this trial we all may have some substantial ground to stand on and have some closure for future dabtes when the arise.

oDDJob wrote: and what is the abstract to this little evaluation ???

what´s the point ???

my opinion is that no one never gonna change a chickenshit in the big perspective... doing this peacemaker mission to unit players to have a unified approch...its a deadend...everyone should know it by now.

if the unlikely event gonna be successful... then those who pushed this even killed the game and its multifaceted possibilities.

it´s just sheer communism in keynote personified, just saying my opinion...iam not to much of a commie so if it happens i be the first to leave this game...

over and out...

oDDJob

Please read what I just posted in bold above to explain the purpose of this trial. I hope I explained myself well. Should this come into effect it will only be for 1 week. There will be no reason for you to leave the game because once the week passes all will most likely go back to the way things are right now. At least we all did have a chance to see what it is like when we all play by no rules.

I don't know if you are seeing what I am when I am in games, but it definitely seems as if more and more players are using any available tactic, even tank spawn killing and no one is doing anything about it. Maybe this will do us all some good. Maybe not. Don't know and we may never know unless we give it a try.

Everyone that knows me knows that I only use certain tactics against those that use them against me. So this is a big step for me to take here. I am however willing to go against what I believe and give it a try.

oDDJob wrote: 1. what is the abstract to this little evaluation ?


2. what is it you trying to achieve ?

1 & 2:
No choice of game play will be considered unfair. That should eliminate any arguements for at least one week as anything and everything will be acceptable. The only thing that I can see being achieved by this trial is that we all gave it a try and we all will know how the game will be when everyone is playing the same way. As dogfight is being played right now, and in the past, there have always been these never ending arguements over the same issues. At least now we will have some hardcore facts to base our opinions on and say we gave this way of playing a try.

The key is to get everyone in on it and not having only the select few to use these tactics. That is a clear advantage for those players and by us all doing it, no one will have any advantage whatsoever.

Personally I will continue to play as I do. I see your point Gunzz but I dont feel it will solve anything. Those who use said tactics usually get delt with by those on the opposing team. Its a nice thought but I'll continue as I have been
Have a good day

Another thing for all of us players that do not use tactics such as glitches and spawn killing to consider is that it is pay back time to all of those that do. I know we will all be affected by this should we all choose to do this, but even I am willing to give it a try for 1 week and put up with it and you all know who against these tactics I am.

It does not mean I will continue to do so after this 1 week is up. It sure would be nice to put those who use these tactics regularly in their place and see how they like it when it is used against them without us waiting for them to do it first.

Call it revenge week or what ever you want. All I am saying is that this will be a trial to see what it is like when we all use them.

diaoblique wrote: Personally I will continue to play as I do. I see your point Gunzz but I dont feel it will solve anything. Those who use said tactics usually get delt with by those on the opposing team. Its a nice thought but I'll continue as I have been
Have a good day

I respect your opinion. I never have to even second guess if you will choose certain tactics in a game. You are an honorable and great player as well as a good friend.

*** I just added this now...I guess in some way I had enough of some of these players and unleashing myself and us all on these players is just a good way to let them get a taste of their own medicine.

Not gonna partake. Not my style.

Have to agree with my friends Comet and Hulk. Gonna play the "right" way. Programming glitches should not be taken advantage of, tactics (sneaking) are just that, tactics. Spawnkilling air planes with a tank on or near runway is one hard fast rule Zup has always said is not allowed. It discourages new players from even wanting to play and it just plain pi$$es me off when it happens to me. You become an enemy for life if you do that to me. I will do anything to get the plane in the air and destroy whoever does it. And any subsequent games whenever I see that person in red, they will eat lots of lead. Play on MacDuff!

Uhm, I really don't get what you're going for here. Does it help to win a game if you use the tank in a carrier glitch. Yes. It's also BS. SO, you're inviting everybody to use it for one week? Why? We've been trying to stop that type of play. To tell everybody to do it, even for a short period, will eliminate any and all gains we've made towards making it unacceptable.

This makes no sense

Husky Dog {WP} wrote: Uhm, I really don't get what you're going for here. Does it help to win a game if you use the tank in a carrier glitch. Yes. It's also BS. SO, you're inviting everybody to use it for one week? Why? We've been trying to stop that type of play. To tell everybody to do it, even for a short period, will eliminate any and all gains we've made towards making it unacceptable.

This makes no sense

Husky

You are right but do you really think any progress has been made making certain choices unacceptable? I have been here 5 months now and I can honestly say that I only see things getting worse.

A new glitch craze is the invisible man on the carrier. In my first 3 months I have never seen that at all. Over the past 2 months I have seen it done over 10 times. Players are seeing these tactics and then using them as well. Same as with all the tactics. Players are learning from eachother.

There are many b.s. moves that are used in the game that should not be there in the first place. They are there and it's not getting better, it's only getting worse. It's like an infestation. Maybe I am wrong as I do not know how things were here before I came around but since I have been here it is getting worse.

Maybe if we all play in this way, and I hope it gets very ugly, that maybe then it actually may do the exact opposite and help players see that it doesn't belong here. It may be what we need to make progress to clean the game up.

D93 Big Gunzzz wrote:

Husky Dog {WP} wrote: Uhm, I really don't get what you're going for here. Does it help to win a game if you use the tank in a carrier glitch. Yes. It's also BS. SO, you're inviting everybody to use it for one week? Why? We've been trying to stop that type of play. To tell everybody to do it, even for a short period, will eliminate any and all gains we've made towards making it unacceptable.

This makes no sense

Husky

You are right but do you really think any progress has been made making certain choices unacceptable? I have been here 5 months now and I can honestly say that I only see things getting worse.

A new glitch craze is the invisible man on the carrier. In my first 3 months I have never seen that at all. Over the past 2 months I have seen it done over 10 times. Players are seeing these tactics and then using them as well. Same as with all the tactics. Players are learning from eachother.

There are many b.s. moves that are used in the game that should not be there in the first place. They are there and it's not getting better, it's only getting worse. It's like an infestation. Maybe I am wrong as I do not know how things were here before I came around but since I have been here it is getting worse.

Maybe if we all play in this way, and I hope it gets very ugly, that maybe then it actually may do the exact opposite and help players see that it doesn't belong here. It may be what we need to make progress to clean the game up.

No. It will make people believe that this is just the way the game is played. Nothing good will come of this.

Husky

Yep. That was another way to think about it that crossed my mind. I got it that you are not in favor of this 1 week trial.

Thanks for dropping in and posting your opinion. I have to admit that so far everone has been very respectful on this thread with there posts. It is the way all threads should go.

From the looks of things now I would have to say it will not happen as almost all are against it.

D93 Big Gunzzz wrote: Husky

Yep. That was another way to think about it that crossed my mind. I got it that you are not in favor of this 1 week trial.

Thanks for dropping in and posting your opinion. I have to admit that so far everone has been very respectful on this thread with there posts. It is the way all threads should go.

From the looks of things now I would have to say it will not happen as almost all are against it.

Oh no my friend,
But it is happening, already my friend.. & almost if not just about everyday ?

You have been here for five months, I have played this game for three years. Others for five years and I can say with certainty that nothing will change, everyone has a style of play, good bad or indifferent.

I have seen this for the entirety of my conviction here and have seen thread after thread go round and round about glitches, dropping, up the middle and so on and so on. One constant here is the constant squabbling and the constant complaining over a game we all choose to play.

Deal with it in each game and when that game is over, start a new one and once in a great while you will get that game that is one of the best you've had in awhile. Encouraging others to engage in a free for all will settle nothing nor miraculously bond the hundreds of thousands who play and of those players there are few who visit the forum community.

Look around the forum categories and you will find many dead end threads with similar approaches, guess what? Nothing has changed other than new players who find this game. I as well as many will not purposely play like an arse unless an arse does it first, we handle it and continue on with the game.

You asked if any had been banned for tank spawn killing and if you want an answer, go explore the.black list as quite a few received bans when we still had global mods.and it is one of the very few rules made by Zuperman. Why haven't people beeped ban lately? Simply because we have no mods to do so, email Zup directly with screen shots and he will respond, or do as most and deal with it and move onto the next game.

Isn't this the way we all play already? We all know what is against game rules (i.e tank spawn killing, swearing, etc) so aren't we all deciding not to use these things, the aspects that you call "unfair", because we have decided that's where our moral compass points?

If you do sway others to exploit game flaws and take advantage of unjust situations you think this will improve the game as a whole? I see it more as a catalyst to teaching more players to do what everyone complains about already.

I agree with others before, Hulk and Comet etc, that is the honorable players will play no differently and the rest may play with less honor so I don't see this working as you may have hoped.

There are very few actual rules in dogfight. The ones that do exist are here to make the game more enjoyable for all. I don't think it is a good idea to suspend them in the game even in a temporary fashion for several reasons:

* only a small percentage of players actually visit the forum and would know what is going on.
* it would be a very bad example for all newer players.
* it would discourage noobs from staying.
* it may let a bad genie out of the bottle which could not be put back in.

I fully support the rules. I include taking advantage of unintentional glitches to be against the rules because it is game ruining behavior that either cannot be countered or is very difficult to counter. I include repeated spawnkilling to be against the rules because it can be used in a very abusive way. I include bashing of anyone to be against the rules because it is specifically forbidden in the actual rules.


If the intention is to experiment with tactical play(not cheating) everyone already has all of the permission/authorization to do so. If you would like to implement a week where those who play within the rules are to be free from bashing, shaming, berating and insults, please by all means, make it happen but do not suspend the rules which have been put forth by Zuperman/ echoboom.



(Edit) if Zup ever creates the ability to designate particular servers for particular styles I would prefer the "anything goes" version. Ideally glitches would not be exploited but part of the idea is to have nothing to complain about. The important distinction is that anyone there would be there by choice so it would not be "ruining" for anyone.